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Unfiltered: Ex-CJI Ranjan Gogoi interviewed by Rahul Kanwal on event launch of his Autobiography 'Justice For Judge'

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Post the launch of his  Autiobiography 'Justice For Judge' by his successor, Ex-CJI SA Bobde, the now Rajya Sabha Member and 46th CJI, Ranjan Gogoi sat for a one on one interview with Times Now Editor, Rahul Kanwal, \

As the interview began, he faced question on Ayodhya Judgement, to which he replied:

"I did not resurrect Ayodhya. It is a responsibility my predecessor gave to me and allotted a date. I have two options to run or to fight. CJI Bobde said I come from a family of warriors, I fought. I don't sleep well at night and my mind keeps churning. How do you sleep that within 3 months of commencement of hearing, you have to complete discussion with brother judges and pronounce it?

" I constituted the Bench for Ayodhya case and it was my job to finish it. It was my commitment. How do I sleep then? "

[Excerpts from Interview]


R Kanwal: There were reports that Supreme Court did not give importance to human rights cases, and Kashmir issue when Ayodhya hearing was on.

    Ex- CJI Ranjan Gogoi: I allocated the Kashmir cases to an alternate bench since Ayodhya was from August 6. I didn't let the Kashmir case hibernate. Media says CJI has no time for human rights cases what they don't say that CJI allocated the case to an alternate bench.

R Kanwal: But why were the cases not heard more expeditiously?


   Ex- CJI Ranjan Gogoi: I cannot interfere in a Judge's day to day functioning. They are judges of the Supreme Court and they have to be given respect. We cannot monitor performance of brother judges. On expeditious, I cannot answer because it will be speculative. As judiciary does not like interference, the Judges too did not like interference by the Chief Justice.

*Conversation around controversial Sexual Harasment Case*

R Kanwal: You speak in detail about sexual harassment charges. It was said that due to charge government was able to ensure that CJI could not pass negative comments.


   Ex- CJI Ranjan Gogoi:I belong to warrior class. In Chandigarh, I fought death and I was in 39 days in ICU. After this, you think someone has the guts to tell me what to do.

R Kanwal: When the sexual harassment charge was levelled, you stayed in Bench. In hindsight do you think it was a mistake?

    Ex- CJI Ranjan Gogoi: In hindsight, I should not have been a Judge in the Bench. But, what do you do if your reputation as an upcoming anchor is destroyed?  45 years of my hard work in Bar and Bench was being spoiled. Then people say Article 32 was being filed to ask me to step down till enquiry. What was the order passed? Does it give me a clean chit? No. No. No. It might have been better If I was not part of the Bench. We all make mistakes. No harm in accepting it.


Answerin on the query of in-house proceeding report not being made public and that committee didn't have an outsider, he said

"We all talk about independence of judiciary and for it to be independent, Judges must be independent. In-house process has been on since 1970s.  Any Tom Dick and Harry making a complaint does not get it investigated. It's only at the discretion of the Full Court. It's laid down by judgment. In-house proceeding is not toothless. If found guilty, they step down and president approves impeachment."

'"An additional registrar is part of internal complaints committee. But I put my neck out and gave the noose of former CJI Bobde. He would have been happy to hang me and get extra 7 months of extra tenure. What are you talking about? The additional registrar would have decided in my favour in 24 hours. But in-house committee has been there from last 20 years."


R Kanwal: How the lady who levelled sexual harassment charges got reinstated?

    Ex- CJI Ranjan Gogoi: The lady got reinstated during my tenure. She wrote a letter to Justice Bobde seeking appointment on humanitarian grounds. He asked me, and I said deal with it. Justice Bobde reinstated her with compassion. He reinstated two other employees.

*As the talks lead towards the much talked about Press Conference of 2018, the Ex- CJI jokes, if Rahul needs water.*


He begin by saying:

"I thought in the conference we will meet Mr. X, Mr. Y, Mr. Z and other press lounge reporters. But, when we went to Justice Chelameshwar's house we saw something else, but then we wanted to address the press. We had to call the PC that we were unable to persuade the then CJI Dipak Misra regarding allocation of cases to Bench. I hope it was the first and last occassion that Judges had to address the press."

Talking for himself, he said;

"I was least convinced that democracy was in peril, similarly I am least convinced about the Rajya Sabha seat offered to me as quid pro quo for the ayodhya judgment. These are all made up by media and newspapers."

The Ex-CJI was quick to deny executive interference in judiciary. He amusingly said:

"NIL. Who would dare come and ask Ranjan Gogoi to do something? Tushar... Will you? to which Solicitor General Tushar Mehta laughed.

Sharing the instance, he revealed:

"I was given a special hotline to Prime Minister and Law Minister, but I threw it. Executive interference is possible to be made in hundred different ways and it depends upon the incumbent. I didn't call even the PM even once. I had received one call with voice of a person of Mr. Modi. He said he is the Prime Minister. I did not speak. I asked the intelligence bureau, they said it was a fake call by a person impersonating his voice. Now, is it a sin to meet the law minister?  I don't believe that Judges should only meet Judges. I met Ravi Shankar Prasad, my friend, not the law minister."

R Kanwal was curious about the private dinner in Supreme Court just before Rafale judgment, he told Justice Gogoi, "People said daal mein kuch kaaala hai."

    Ex- CJI Ranjan Gogoi: Daal toh kaala hi hota hai. Nahi toh kya daal hai. (Daal is black only, otherwise what Dal?)\ He came on November 26 on Constitution Day. I don't think anything wrong with it. They were judges who took selfies with the Prime Minister. They are the activist judges now.

Kanwal further asks about Rajya Sabha nomination.

    Ex- CJI Ranjan Gogoi: What would you have me accept, governorship? Or chairman of NHRC. Financially, I would have been better. I have not taken a penny from Rajya Sabha and not even the amount that is due to me to engage office help. I am paying that too. Mary Kom, Narender Yadav and myself, we are the only ones who did not join a political party out of the 12 nominated ones. I continue to maintain my independence, thus maintaining my line to express my view for or against the government.

"You cannot cow me down with shouting. This does not scare Ranjan Gogoi. I will not bow down to unconstitutional, if not extra constitutional, noises.", the Former-CJI said on his views onbeing on the Bench in his sexual harassment case.

*On National Register of Citizens*

Who said government wanted NRC hastily? What was correct was not said, and what's not correct was said. NRC is an constitutional obligation and we had to do it.

*On Armed Forces (Special Powers) Act*

Former CJI Gogoi: The demand to repeal it has been going on since last 40 years. The ugly incident in Nagaland was a mistake and accident. Accidents are unfortunate. Stringent laws are may be required but hasty decisions are not needed.

 

 

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(With input from news agency language)

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